The hope that an entirely fictional "this is what Biden's America will be" scenario will be a bridge too far for voters seems hugely optimistic to me. They ran "this is Biden's America" ads last time with film of current events under the Trump administration, and, given the number of times I saw those ads shared, they were well received. I know a fellow who moved out of Houston because he was convinced his expensive downtown apartment was constantly on the verge of being stormed by marauding gangs of antifa thugs. Hordes of people insist that Portland has been burned to the ground, that many cities were burned down, that police departments are all defunded and murder rates are skyrocketing, and no amount of showing them increased budgets or actual crime rates or non-smoldering cities will change their beliefs.
When people are already separated from reality, a fictional ad won't be anything they don't already believe in.
I read an article last night that horrified me and mentioned MS-13 (Pasco Uber Eats driver killed, dismembered while delivering to home in Holiday, sheriff says) in the Tampa Bay Times. If you can stomach it, scroll down to the moron who committed this crime. Wow, MS-13 in DeSantis' anti-woke, freedom Florida. This is maybe 20 miles from where I live and the obviously anti-woke Sheriff couldn't be bothered to take it seriously for 48 hours. But this anit-woke sheriff could be bothered with other fun shenanigans as far as targeting people with a scheme something like Minority Report.
I applied for food stamps in Virginia in 1997 when my son was 4 months old and his father was injured in a car jacking. I had to sign a paper attesting I understood if I got pregnant while on food stamps, I would get no extra money. That is still Virginia policy. They love the unborn; babies, not so much.
If Republicans are befuddled about abortion politics, its that they have not figured out a way to sell an highly unpopular policy to a majority of the country. So, like most authoritarians, they will use the rules in place to effectively force it on all of us. Same playbook these religious nutcases used to get the 18th Amendment passed during Prohibition.
The Prohibition movement had been around for over 60 plus years prior to the 18th Amendment, but had lost steam. Two things changed its trajectory: (i) the passage of the income tax and (ii) WWI and the related rise of anti-German sentiment (all the major American breweries were owned by German-Americans). These two things gave the Prohibition forces the excuses and boogeyman they needed to get the public behind them. Then they forced the 18th Amendment through the Congress and then to the states within 12 months. Then, realizing that the 1920 Census was going to reapportion and reallocate House seats to more urban areas who were unlikely to support the Prohibition Amendment, decided to not have a House reapportionment (only time in history)!!
Of course Prohibition was a disaster and basically created modern day organized crime in this country. But hey, as long as the religious authoritarians and White Supremacists support it, that was all that mattered. Literally, Prohibition forces used the KKK as their foot soldiers (sound familiar?). Of course, this so called Christian organization was involved in all sorts of illegal activities, including bootlegging. Sort of like homophobic ministers caught diddling male masseuses (Ted Haggard) or GOP congressmen who pay for abortions for their numerous mistresses, and the GQP that uses various armed supporters in attempts to intimidate their political opponents (Proud Boys).
Point is, all of this stuff, in one way or another has happened before.
As a teen, just post-Roe, I had a number of very close friends who believed abortion is murder. If I believed as they did--and I assume still do--what would I be willing to do to prevent a murder? Certainly not compromise. A good segment of the other side still holds those views.
I understand your point, but abortion is the medical and legal term for the ending of any pregnancy. You seem to want the medical and legal fields to change to match people's beliefs. I don't think that is possible.
I still can't fathom how Republicans (and the media) convinced themselves that women would simply shrug their shoulders and cede control of their bodies and thus their futures. I supposed it was because no one thought that Roe might truly be overturned.
And I disagree with Nikki Haley about the least pro-life position she can possibly imagine. That would be when a woman must be sent to the hospital parking lot to WAIT IN HER CAR until she is actually dying in order to receive abortion treatment.
Can we also talk about the fetus and the woman. When do the fetus's rights overcome the rights of the woman? And let's not use word games. So let's not say something like a fetus is a human being, and killing a human being is murder?
If a fetus is a human being with all the rights of a fully formed human, then tell me why that is so? The fetus certainly does not possess the dignity of a father or mother raising a family. What about the fetus (and when) make it deserving of rights enough to that the right of the mother are overcome? So the very early moments of the fertilized egg cell - this surely does not have the rights of a living breathing human.
The catholic church now grants humanity from conception. but really? before implantation? And by what right do that do this? The bible does not say anything about this. Early church fathers accorded humanity at "quickening".
In any case we are not a theocracy. So what do we do? The Roe v Wade decision used science and the science still holds. And note the fetal heart beat is not the heart pumping blood.
Women have aborted fetuses for as long as we are aware of female behavior. This behavior was not destructive to society (as let's say lynching was). So let's start a real examination of abortion. and no word games.
Can we finally stop what is in essence a lie about late term abortions. The anti-abortion folks pretend that these occur to women who, after having been pregnant for 6 months, finally decide to have an abortion. But this is not true at all. Later term abortions (as far as I can see from all the looking for accounts on line) occur only because of a tragedy. So a compromised pregnancy.
And the new restrictive abortion laws have the effect of forcing women to bring very compromised pregnancies to term - even the exceptions are poorly written into the law, such that doctors are afraid to take the risk of performing an abortion.
When a media company like NPR puts the story on the air - when they offer a chance for comment from pro-lifers, the pro-lifers never appear to explain their position.
I don’t know how widespread it it, but I am seeing a lot of conservatives say that they are finished with Fox. We’ll see.
As for abortion, there is no way that Republicans can put lipstick on this pig. They have lost a lot of votes over their embrace of the pro-birth crowd, and those votes will probably not come back. It is painfully obvious that they want a national ban, after which I have no doubt that they will turn to contraception. No thanks. They and their bible-thumping base can stick it.
Republicans, abortion, Dobbs decision: the dog caught the car and has no clue what to do now.
Nastier: abortion pre-Dobbs drew the anti-abortion right to the polls to vote for Republicans. Post-Dobbs, if Republicans want anti-abortion voter turnout to remain high, they have to throw red, dripping meat to them, and that means ever more draconian anti-abortion laws. Small problem: that'll drive away suburban small government types who might have few if any qualms about getting their teenage daughters abortions as situations arose.
What's left of traditional, pre-Tea Party Republicans may be willing to live with each state deciding what to do about abortion rights or bans, but they aren't going to abide nationwide bans. In presidential election terms, what's now necessary to win in Iowa and Missouri are almost certain to lose Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.
Karma is serving Republicans a super-duper sized helping of unintended consequences and toxic dilemmas. Couldn't happen to a more deserving party.
Now that rethuglicans are the dogs that caught the car in regards to taking away abortion rights, they stumble and stammer when asked about it. Saw interviews with Tim Scott and Nikki Haley and it was a veritable word salad. Then there was Miss Lindsey on State of the Union, where he yelled and finger-pointed at Dana Bash. But she calmly shot him down over his temper tantrum. Nullifying Roe has been the rethugs holy grail since it was decided. This should have been codified when we had super majorities back in the '70s. I think the attitude was, "hey, nothing will ever happen," until it did.
It i always puzzling to me when otherwise intelligent humans do not see their own logical inconsistency. As in, hello FL pro-life governor who jut signed the 6 week ban…AND is pushing for more death penalty expansion. Or, hello Nikki Haley, who thinks it would be horrible (in a pro-life way) to be compare to brutal regimes like communist China or North Korea yet apparently hasn’t seen the chart/data on gun deaths or ownership where we far outpace everyone INCLUDING brutal or communist regimes…and apparently also cannot connect the dots on how US gun sales also exacerbate deaths in other countries or our own fentanyl crisis.
I just want consistency or logical coherence. (This is a longtanding request, as I remember also saying it (thoin different context) to the priests at Catholic school after they would boot me from class and tell me to go to study hall).
The hope that an entirely fictional "this is what Biden's America will be" scenario will be a bridge too far for voters seems hugely optimistic to me. They ran "this is Biden's America" ads last time with film of current events under the Trump administration, and, given the number of times I saw those ads shared, they were well received. I know a fellow who moved out of Houston because he was convinced his expensive downtown apartment was constantly on the verge of being stormed by marauding gangs of antifa thugs. Hordes of people insist that Portland has been burned to the ground, that many cities were burned down, that police departments are all defunded and murder rates are skyrocketing, and no amount of showing them increased budgets or actual crime rates or non-smoldering cities will change their beliefs.
When people are already separated from reality, a fictional ad won't be anything they don't already believe in.
I read an article last night that horrified me and mentioned MS-13 (Pasco Uber Eats driver killed, dismembered while delivering to home in Holiday, sheriff says) in the Tampa Bay Times. If you can stomach it, scroll down to the moron who committed this crime. Wow, MS-13 in DeSantis' anti-woke, freedom Florida. This is maybe 20 miles from where I live and the obviously anti-woke Sheriff couldn't be bothered to take it seriously for 48 hours. But this anit-woke sheriff could be bothered with other fun shenanigans as far as targeting people with a scheme something like Minority Report.
defenestration!
I applied for food stamps in Virginia in 1997 when my son was 4 months old and his father was injured in a car jacking. I had to sign a paper attesting I understood if I got pregnant while on food stamps, I would get no extra money. That is still Virginia policy. They love the unborn; babies, not so much.
If Republicans are befuddled about abortion politics, its that they have not figured out a way to sell an highly unpopular policy to a majority of the country. So, like most authoritarians, they will use the rules in place to effectively force it on all of us. Same playbook these religious nutcases used to get the 18th Amendment passed during Prohibition.
The Prohibition movement had been around for over 60 plus years prior to the 18th Amendment, but had lost steam. Two things changed its trajectory: (i) the passage of the income tax and (ii) WWI and the related rise of anti-German sentiment (all the major American breweries were owned by German-Americans). These two things gave the Prohibition forces the excuses and boogeyman they needed to get the public behind them. Then they forced the 18th Amendment through the Congress and then to the states within 12 months. Then, realizing that the 1920 Census was going to reapportion and reallocate House seats to more urban areas who were unlikely to support the Prohibition Amendment, decided to not have a House reapportionment (only time in history)!!
Of course Prohibition was a disaster and basically created modern day organized crime in this country. But hey, as long as the religious authoritarians and White Supremacists support it, that was all that mattered. Literally, Prohibition forces used the KKK as their foot soldiers (sound familiar?). Of course, this so called Christian organization was involved in all sorts of illegal activities, including bootlegging. Sort of like homophobic ministers caught diddling male masseuses (Ted Haggard) or GOP congressmen who pay for abortions for their numerous mistresses, and the GQP that uses various armed supporters in attempts to intimidate their political opponents (Proud Boys).
Point is, all of this stuff, in one way or another has happened before.
As a teen, just post-Roe, I had a number of very close friends who believed abortion is murder. If I believed as they did--and I assume still do--what would I be willing to do to prevent a murder? Certainly not compromise. A good segment of the other side still holds those views.
I understand your point, but abortion is the medical and legal term for the ending of any pregnancy. You seem to want the medical and legal fields to change to match people's beliefs. I don't think that is possible.
I still can't fathom how Republicans (and the media) convinced themselves that women would simply shrug their shoulders and cede control of their bodies and thus their futures. I supposed it was because no one thought that Roe might truly be overturned.
And I disagree with Nikki Haley about the least pro-life position she can possibly imagine. That would be when a woman must be sent to the hospital parking lot to WAIT IN HER CAR until she is actually dying in order to receive abortion treatment.
"In Oklahoma, a woman was told to wait until she's 'crashing' for abortion care" https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/04/25/1171851775/oklahoma-woman-abortion-ban-study-shows-confusion-at-hospitals
Can we also talk about the fetus and the woman. When do the fetus's rights overcome the rights of the woman? And let's not use word games. So let's not say something like a fetus is a human being, and killing a human being is murder?
If a fetus is a human being with all the rights of a fully formed human, then tell me why that is so? The fetus certainly does not possess the dignity of a father or mother raising a family. What about the fetus (and when) make it deserving of rights enough to that the right of the mother are overcome? So the very early moments of the fertilized egg cell - this surely does not have the rights of a living breathing human.
The catholic church now grants humanity from conception. but really? before implantation? And by what right do that do this? The bible does not say anything about this. Early church fathers accorded humanity at "quickening".
In any case we are not a theocracy. So what do we do? The Roe v Wade decision used science and the science still holds. And note the fetal heart beat is not the heart pumping blood.
Women have aborted fetuses for as long as we are aware of female behavior. This behavior was not destructive to society (as let's say lynching was). So let's start a real examination of abortion. and no word games.
Abortion is killing the GOP. But Democrats are so hapless they will probably be explaining 'defund the police' the next 2 years.
Can we finally stop what is in essence a lie about late term abortions. The anti-abortion folks pretend that these occur to women who, after having been pregnant for 6 months, finally decide to have an abortion. But this is not true at all. Later term abortions (as far as I can see from all the looking for accounts on line) occur only because of a tragedy. So a compromised pregnancy.
And the new restrictive abortion laws have the effect of forcing women to bring very compromised pregnancies to term - even the exceptions are poorly written into the law, such that doctors are afraid to take the risk of performing an abortion.
When a media company like NPR puts the story on the air - when they offer a chance for comment from pro-lifers, the pro-lifers never appear to explain their position.
Fox should give the new 8pm slot to Liz Cheney.
I don’t know how widespread it it, but I am seeing a lot of conservatives say that they are finished with Fox. We’ll see.
As for abortion, there is no way that Republicans can put lipstick on this pig. They have lost a lot of votes over their embrace of the pro-birth crowd, and those votes will probably not come back. It is painfully obvious that they want a national ban, after which I have no doubt that they will turn to contraception. No thanks. They and their bible-thumping base can stick it.
Republicans, abortion, Dobbs decision: the dog caught the car and has no clue what to do now.
Nastier: abortion pre-Dobbs drew the anti-abortion right to the polls to vote for Republicans. Post-Dobbs, if Republicans want anti-abortion voter turnout to remain high, they have to throw red, dripping meat to them, and that means ever more draconian anti-abortion laws. Small problem: that'll drive away suburban small government types who might have few if any qualms about getting their teenage daughters abortions as situations arose.
What's left of traditional, pre-Tea Party Republicans may be willing to live with each state deciding what to do about abortion rights or bans, but they aren't going to abide nationwide bans. In presidential election terms, what's now necessary to win in Iowa and Missouri are almost certain to lose Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.
Karma is serving Republicans a super-duper sized helping of unintended consequences and toxic dilemmas. Couldn't happen to a more deserving party.
Now that rethuglicans are the dogs that caught the car in regards to taking away abortion rights, they stumble and stammer when asked about it. Saw interviews with Tim Scott and Nikki Haley and it was a veritable word salad. Then there was Miss Lindsey on State of the Union, where he yelled and finger-pointed at Dana Bash. But she calmly shot him down over his temper tantrum. Nullifying Roe has been the rethugs holy grail since it was decided. This should have been codified when we had super majorities back in the '70s. I think the attitude was, "hey, nothing will ever happen," until it did.
It i always puzzling to me when otherwise intelligent humans do not see their own logical inconsistency. As in, hello FL pro-life governor who jut signed the 6 week ban…AND is pushing for more death penalty expansion. Or, hello Nikki Haley, who thinks it would be horrible (in a pro-life way) to be compare to brutal regimes like communist China or North Korea yet apparently hasn’t seen the chart/data on gun deaths or ownership where we far outpace everyone INCLUDING brutal or communist regimes…and apparently also cannot connect the dots on how US gun sales also exacerbate deaths in other countries or our own fentanyl crisis.
I just want consistency or logical coherence. (This is a longtanding request, as I remember also saying it (thoin different context) to the priests at Catholic school after they would boot me from class and tell me to go to study hall).